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Doom creator discusses experiences with Apple

updated 04:00 pm EST, Sat November 7, 2009

Suggests Apple frowns on iPhone gaming


id Software co-founder John Carmack has described working with Apple as a "rollercoaster ride" in a new interview, arguing that Apple executives are not happy with the increasing popularity of the iPhone and iPod touch as a gaming platform. Carmack -- responsible for Doom, Quake and other titles -- has spent several years working with Apple in order to get games such as Doom Classic onto the App Store.

The programmer comments that throughout his career, he has been both embraced and rejected by Apple, making working with the company difficult at times. Run-ins may, he says, be due to the company’s management looking down on games, and how the iPhone and iPod touch are nevertheless being linked with them.

Although Touch advertising has seen an increased gaming focus, and the company has even gone as far as to compare the iPhone and Touch to systems like the Nintendo DS and Sony PSP, Carmack proposes that "at the highest level of Apple, in their hearts, they’re not proud of the iPhone being a game machine and wish it were something else." The popularity of the iPhone is said to be a major factor forcing Apple to come to grips with gaming, whether it likes it or not.


by MacNN Staff

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iPod, iPhone, iPod touch, gaming, John Carmack

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  1. kkingmd

    Fresh-Faced Recruit

    Joined: Jan 2008

    +1
    11/07, 09:34pm | report spam | Reply |

    Uh huh...

    That just doesn't make any damn sense. Apple execs aren't happy that their iPhone and iTouch are killing the competition and are wildly popular making Apple hundreds of millions (billions?) I don't really believe that many folks truly looks at their iPhone or iTouch as a pure gaming platform...

    More likely is that Apple isn't making concessions that Carmack desires to make the games: 1. easier to code at the expense of something Apple isn't willing to pay (decreased performance of core functions/battery life?); 2. a change in their business model to allow for more money to flow to Carmack or 3. some other concession that is at odds with Apple's core business model.

    Sounds more like sour grapes to me.

    KK

  1. iphonerulez

    Fresh-Faced Recruit

    Joined: Nov 2008

    0
    11/07, 11:03pm | report spam | Reply |

    I never much cared for Apple being

    considered nothing but a high-tech toy company. Maybe after it established itself as a consumer and corporate powerhouse company, I could deal with it. I honestly think that investors and analysts look down on Apple and the company not being taken seriously in the business world. Companies like Cisco and Intel are not considered toy companies yet because Apple does happen to make products that people can relax with they are labeled as toys. I agree that Apple is still making money from the iPhone and iPod Touch being used for games, but I'd bet Apple would rather most of those games become business productivity applications. I'm sure Apple upper management would really rather be in the world of big business and maybe they wouldn't have to work so hard trying to prove themselves all the time. I think that if they really wanted to become a gaming company, they could build some serious game console that would clobber the competition. I mean, why couldn't they with the cash and design expertise and developers fighting to write games for them.

    Still, as an investor, I'd rather see the stability of a couple of their products sitting in the offices of all the Fortune 1000 companies with an endless rotation of contracts like Microsoft has.

  1. climacs

    Fresh-Faced Recruit

    Joined: Sep 2001

    +1
    11/08, 12:35pm | report spam | Reply |

    @kkingmd

    I think you nailed it. It would be F'ing 'tarded of Apple to not want iPhone/iPod Touch to be considered a gaming platform!

  1. climacs

    Fresh-Faced Recruit

    Joined: Sep 2001

    +4
    11/08, 12:36pm | report spam | Reply |

    @iphonerulez

    Investors sure don't have a problem with a 'gaming' company, they make BIG money.

  1. c4rlob

    Fresh-Faced Recruit

    Joined: May 2009

    -2
    11/08, 06:51pm | report spam | Reply |

    what did they expect?

    They never gave it a camera, they stalled to give it decent wif-fi or bluetooth features that could allow people to pair it with a computer. They still haven't matured their iWork suite for a mobile platform. So what else did they expect people to use it for? A vanity mirror?

  1. JeffHarris

    Fresh-Faced Recruit

    Joined: Oct 1999

    +3
    11/09, 06:56am | report spam | Reply |

    ?

    Carmack is talented, no doubt, but he should stop whining at Apple and make more Macintosh games. Even making an effort to ship Mac and PC version games on the SAME DAY and not wait a year for the Mac version to be released, would be a nice step.

    If he did that, maybe Apple would listen to him a little more.

  1. testudo

    Fresh-Faced Recruit

    Joined: Aug 2001

    0
    11/09, 01:45pm | report spam | Reply |

    Re: ?

    Or, maybe if Apple listened to him a bit more, it would be easier to release games for Mac and PC at the same time. As it is, no one is stupid enough to hold off on a new game for the PC because they're working out the kinks on the Mac side or vice versa. That's just wasting money.

  1. testudo

    Fresh-Faced Recruit

    Joined: Aug 2001

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    11/09, 02:00pm | report spam | Reply |

    Re: Uh-huh

    That just doesn't make any damn sense. Apple execs aren't happy that their iPhone and iTouch are killing the competition and are wildly popular making Apple hundreds of millions (billions?) I don't really believe that many folks truly looks at their iPhone or iTouch as a pure gaming platform...

    Being that Apple promotes the iTouch (as most people, for some reason, call it) as a gaming platform, I don't see how people could not see it as such.
    But, if you read the article, he says "at the highest level of Apple, in their hearts, they’re not proud of the iPhone being a game machine and wish it were something else." He's talking the iPhone here (which Apple does NOT tout as a gaming platform, and you can be sure they would prefer it to be considered anything but). He didn't say "Oh, the execs wish they weren't making so much money off of it, and it was a much poorer seller".

    And, if you seriously think about it, if you spent 3 years working on the 'perfect phone' (or whatever you want to call it), and thinking about all the possible uses of it, and all the great applications one can do with it, and it ends up being considered a 'gaming machine', you'd be a little irritated as well. Sure, you'd still take the money, but you would still wish your work was seen for what you wanted it to be seen. Like an artist who sells a song and has it used for a beer commercial. You'd take the cash (unless you're one of those 'purists') but you'd still wish people would take the song seriously, not just a reminder you need a case of Bud.

    Sounds more like sour grapes to me.

    Right. Someone doesn't kneel down and praise apple, so it's sour grapes. Please share with us, if you don't mind, what part of the article above is 'sour grapes'?

    Apple has never embraced gaming on Macs. Sure, on occasion, they go out and act like they're making it an important segment, but then they just blow it off. They always wanted to be considered better than that, apparently.

    And it ends up with "The popularity of the iPhone is said to be a major factor forcing Apple to come to grips with gaming, whether it likes it or not.", which is also true.

    Sour grapes would be him saying "We're not bringing our apps to the iPhone because...." or "We think the Zune is a better platform!". Telling you what he thinks is going on in upper management, none of which affected his work with the iPhone, is not sour grapes.

    Maybe what you all need to do is figure out that every story where the person isn't genuflecting Apple's way isn't negative to Apple and needs to be derided.

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